Nice said…. you made my day. heh

lollerskates.

I’ve been waiting for such an answer to his posts for months :D

Are you suggesting Philip cut down on the anal sex?

Totally disagree on the first point. If politicians have acted shamefully then it is your duty to say something. Moral high-ground is a nonsense concept, morals are innate and not built or earnt.

Second point was spot on however.

Thanks for putting Phillip in his place, for once

Apologies for the comment spam, i blame the browser.

He didn’t say to be ashamed of their country, he said to be ashamed of the politicians that are running it. Two different things.

And yes, American’s should be ashamed of the current administration. Hopefully Nov. 7th will put balance back into American politics.

I don’t get the “no moral right” bit.

Also, I’d be amazed if Phillip’s comments offend anyone more than Bush’s policies, or Blair’s willingness to support him on those policies.

of course, he has not the moral right to do that. but I have. and I can say it to you : no. Bush (and so many others..) is not right.

The word ‘moral authority’. Isn’t this very subjective? What do you need to do do aquire this? Perhaps having an opinion and not caring what other people think constitutes the type of behavor with which one gains moral authority.

You don´t earn the right care. You either do, or you’re fucking fascistic fundementalistic muslim/republicans/zionist. (extra point if you can spot a difference in ideology between these three)

So yes, I have never ordered torture. I have not made money from war. I have not sent people to war. I have not started a war so people wouldn’t notice what a crappy job I did running the country. I did not order the end of civil rights. This gives me the moral authority to give every idiot that defends that kind of crap, like YOU, the FINGER.

It doesn’t take a saint to have moral authority over most politicians anyway. And most criminals in the world still have moral authority compared to the US’ government. Legality has to do with power, not ethics. If a criminal is running your country, you don’t call it a criminal, you call a president. But its still the same hamburger.

If you dont like the points raised (or rather in this case vaguely alluded to) by phillip then engage in a civil debate on those points, instead of attacking ad hominem – which just makes you look silly (for lets say not knowing the difference between the english words “politician” and “country”).

So tell me, exactly who does have the “moral authorithy” to criticize torture, war, and war-profiteering (among others)?

Heaven forbid you might actually pick up chomsky’s books and READ them.

Come back when you do and let us know the specific points you disagree with, and how your research supports it. Until then you lack the intellectual authority to chastize phillip.

Hey Jeff!

and talk about wanting the tube steak and virginity at the same time! If you have something to say to phillip or anyone else, say so clearly on your own blog instead of hiding your thoughts, waiting for someone else to say what you wont, then tittering like a school girl on someone elses blog.

“Philip, I hate to be the one to tell you that,….”

Do you have to hide behind a phrase like that instead of just tell him that it’s just your personal opinion? Because I didn’t see any poll or anything like that that represents the general feeling you are talking about.

So please, grow up, if you don’t like other people’s blogging style just keep scrolling down, instead of making a full dramatic post out of it.

way to be friendly and polite dude

had a bad day? Read these books, or at least go into Al Gore’s “an inconvenient truth” and then think about “you haven’t the moral right to …” again.

Spot on. By definition telling a free-thinking individual (we do still exist in America) what to think, you do no benefit to you or your cause.

The teenage girl analog could not possibly be any more accurate. You have yourself a new reader my friend.

Maybe could you try to understand eah others point of view instead of spreading hate and anger ?

I think that Philip was pointing your politicians and not your country. And I will not hide that myself I share his point of view, and even more as I would add that I also feel ashamed from the politicians governing many Arab countries.

Philip, i share your point of view. Calm down Mr. Michael.

All I have to say to these comments is that those who defended me, have far better and more argumentation than those who don’t :-). Those who don’t hide behind their typical one-liners. Sorry, but one-liners like “lollerskates” just doesn’t cut it for me (not even if it’s written by a respected community member like Jeff). Like what ryan says: If you have something to say: say it. Don’t hide behind others.

Do I hide? I don’t. I express my opinion. Openly and indeed, in your face. Over and over again. That’s because I’m a caring individual. People in my personal life often tell me I care too much about things.

Anyway

Like what Ali and others say: I wrote “current politicians”, not “your country”. I agree with dr. evil and ryan that one should read the books. With ryan and Ralf about when somebody has the moral authority to criticize.

And on top of all that: I believe that it’s my duty to express my opinion. Especially given that what has been happening for the last years really depresses me.

If planet.gnome.org maintainers don’t agree with how I express an opinion, they have always been allowed to remove me from their website. I didn’t yet ask them because it’s okay for me that I’m syndicated on it. I also believe it’s important for the GNOME community to cope with the opinions of its members and to cope with them expressing their opinions.

If GNOME is people, GNOME is also opinions. Because people have opinions.

ps. I agree with the NDA thingy.

ps. I would like to add that I was never asked not to express my opinions on p.g.o. I’m absolutely not accusing somebody and I have a lot respect for the people who run p.g.o. for that reason.

:-)

u support bush and/or blair so you are an idiot, supporting great idiot leaders guiding world self destruction. shame on you

you should not be ashamed, you should destroy there government before it destroys you ( and all life on earth with you ).

Sorry but Philip you really need to expand your reading list a bit. I am no fan of Bush, but people like you accept what amounts to no more than totalitarian propaganda without any critical thought. Read up a bit about Chomsky and his support for genocidal regimes before you start embarrassing yourself again.

Here in Europe there is a very one sided view of what is going on and there is very little rational discourse about Bush and the US. Most of it in particular in semi failed economies like Belgium and France amount to little more than embarrassing mutual penis jugging about the big evil cowboy.

Your point on your blog was so stereotypical that I had to comment. I hear this foolery every day here in Europe. Some smug guy who has just read a book or an article about the great evil and says to the surrounding people whom he naturally assumes are “intelligent” like him and state in some way, those poor American’s why can’t they be more like us?

This is not political discourse nor intelligent. Rather it is offensive and designed more to make you and people like you feel superior to the people who by all objective standards keep surpassing your (and my) country in just about every area, except perhaps mutual penis juggling.

I agree with Michael and Pelle.

The European people with their small economies have not really understood that money is worth much more than for instance civil rights.

And what is that about; civil rights! If you have to make a fuzz about it, you are probably just a weak weasel and does not contribute to the economic growth, that make our country so great.

Remember: The one with the most power/money when she/he dies, wins.

Robin :-)

(you are right)

Philip, I never questioned the fact you’re a caring individual nor the fact you read many books. It’s all about your tone, which I find offensive. Not because I’m american (I’m not) and not because I’m pro-bush (I’m not). It’s because the things you say do more harm than good. Acussing is not the way to solve the problem.

Being anti-bush (or, unfortunately, anti-american) is a part of pop culture in europe. It’s a slogan. It’s easy. I doesn’t bring anything new. It won’t get you into any trouble – because your boss, your girlfriend, your cat and your dog are anti-bush already. It’s a safe way to say something “important” without getting any side effects.

There are many problems we’ve got in europe, and you know that. You don’t need to read Chomsky’s books to understand them, you just need to look around. Discussing those problems is a bit more difficult, as it might make you unpopular. But don’t escape those problems by pointing your finger at someone else’s messy kitchen.

Maybe this is a bad place to ask this - given the discussion that’s going on - but: what’s up with Diva ? It’s a long time I heard about it though I’m very curious about it as it looked very promising back then.

Greetings from sunny,lovely Guantanamo. (no, really, I don’t have any real comments on this as every opinion I could have now would be enormous biased. Ok, every opinion is ‘biased’, though mine wouldn’t have much to be based on :))

Wow, what is the deal with these american patriot nutbars? Say anything about their conduct and they rant off nonsensical slander… and then threaten to invade you.

Having the power to destroy the planet gives a nation some sort of power errection I think. Ironic they call themselves a nation of God.

Since they are the only culture that has ever been psychotic enough to use a nuclear weapon on civilians, I have no idea how they manage to talk of “moral authority”. I think ralf gets it.

Aren’t they cluster bombing women and children as we speak by some self appointed moral authority - what is the name they give that again… oh yes, collateral damage.

Phillip makes some good points, but this blogger here has all the depth of thought of an automaton. The religous right has more thoughtful counter-points.

I join ralf in giving you the FINGER. It takes a lot of arrogance to defend the USA in this day and age. Killing 100,000 innocent people is not enough to warrant some thoughtful humility? Nuke me if you must, but don’t wrap yourself in a flag and take no responsability for the horrors commited by your country. If you really are a democracy, then every citizen is to blame for these attrocities.

The world judges the USA by their actions - not their silly propaganda.

btw, why is this garbage on the monologue? This relates to mono how?

Sidenote: Europeans are not anti-american.

The whole idea of us being against america (the people) is ridiculous. The truth is people here, in Europe, are way more superficial and concerned with their own lives than, for example Americans.

Off course, political debates here about wether or the goverment should pay for childcare when both parents are working. But even this is merely a theoretical exercise: everyone can afford it anyway, if they have two jobs.

That’s what freedom, welfare and luxury do with people. We’re not in war-mode, we’re in disney-land-mode. What attraction are we gonna ride next?

Indespite what some here have said, economically we’re doing great. You should lookup the American national debt, to see how your wars are financed.

But when it comes to the situation of the world, we DO CARE. But there is little we can do. The foremost reason is that Europe is not united as much as Americans think it is. We do not have a common foreign policy, army. Our integration is purely cultural and economical. (and the majority wants to keep it this way)

I personally live in the Netherlands. We’re such a small country on the internal scale: our foreign policy means jackshit. I get to vote, but unlike Americans, I can’t vote for world-peace.

You, dear american friends, have that choice. How you run your house and what you do in the privacy of your country is choice, but when you leave your borders, please respect the opinions of your neighbors. How you behave in the neighborhood of the Big Global Village is totally unacceptable.

For decades America has been the role modal, the moral authority, for the western civilization. But things have changed. Stop dismissing our cries as ‘intellecutal superiority’.

We are not better or worse. We’re just lucky: our governments are either less corrupt or less powerful.

In our media, it is often explained and studied why this is happening in the US. Typical things that get mentioned are the fact that all national news channels are now owned by the same republican Zionist Rupert Murdoch. His channels also played a great role in getting away with the election fraud. It is also considered to be part of bigger change: the same thing is going on in Russia.

I gave you the finger, because I think you should respect and welcome all this interest in the American politics. It does not just concern you. When your soldiers cross the American border, it concerns everyone.

America is not the most evil country in the world. There are other countries which suffer corruption, dogmatic ethical views and fundamentalistic religious politics. The big difference, which makes America the ‘evil empire’, is the fact that you are the military strongest country on the planet.

One of the reasons people in Europe voted against a more unified Europe was to prevent what happened to the USA. Too much power in the hands of a small group of persons is just too dangerous.

Next time you tell somebody he does not have the moral authority, please consider the fact that you, an american, tells this to someone who does not have the power to change it. Perhaps thats’s what you meant with moral-authority. We have our morals, but unlike you, not the weapons to enforce them.

So the finger stays raised until you apologize for even using the words morals and authority in the same sentence. You don’t have to agree, but don´t think you can just dismiss any opinion you don’t like with meta-arguments like this. There are real people dying. Do we need a special permit to complain to those who choose for it to be so? A moral-authority badge perhaps?

If anything, we’re not being hip or trendy. We’re ANGRY.

The world sucks; We don’t have the power to change it; Those who do wont listen to our complains; They say we don’t have the moral authority;

It’s not about being superior or making more money. The competitive nature you are referring only exists in the US. It’s not a football match.

How can I get through to you people. Its not about Americans getting attacked, or Europeans feeling superior. Its about stepping up for this world. For the innocent dying.

For once, it’s not about who the winner is, or who is responsible. Please, american people, try to see it from a dead iraqi point of view. Nobody ever wins anything. Why don’t you get it?

Why don’t you people CARE? You rather discuss wether or not europeans feel superior instead of discussed torture, war and murder.

There is genocide going on right now. In darfur. Already more than half a million people died. If you want to sent military to be all victory and all to help the world. SENT THEM THERE.

Do not pretend that your government is trying to create a better world. Its just not how things work.

All you’re gonna get this way is WOIII.

Hoju, I think your own psychotic ramblings prove that there is no way in hell you could ever have a debate with anyone who hasn’t got his hands in your underpants. Lay off the wacky backy, put down the magic mushrooms.

Ralph, thanks for at least having the pretence of wanting to debate. You are one of the few of this group who might actually be able of rational discourse. Although your idea that Murdoch is Zionist immediately raises warning flags. You being from the country of Anne Frank should immediately be disturbed of this kind of thing yourself.

I am libertarian. I am against government. I am all for the people having control over their own lives. Government serves one function for me and that is protection of life and property. Unfortunately while I would really like to say get out of the US.

You say that you can’t vote for world peace, but that the American’s can. Unfortunately you are incorrect. The American’s can only vote to weather they should defend themselves or not. This war was not waged by the US. This war was waged and declared by Al Qaeda, Hizbolla, Hamas, Ayatollah Khomeni and a bunch of other idiot’s who couldn’t give a rats ass what people vote in the US, the Netherlands or here in Denmark.

You can talk long and hard about the historical reasons for them doing this, but this is highly irrelevant today. You will probably also find that England and Turkey are way more responsible than the US as the seeds that started this whole idiocy goes back to the dissolvement of the Ottoman empire. As I said who cares, the current war was declared not by Europe and not by the US.

Whether Bush government is doing a good job or not at fighting the war is debatable, but that doesn’t stop the fact that you can’t vote yourself out of this war.

There is in reality very little we (Europeans and Americans) can do to stop this war, except defend ourselves. The war is not just against the US. It is also against Europe, it’s against normal every day Arab’s who want to live their normal modern lives in Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt.

Unfortunately the people who did start this war are not interested in or even capable of understanding of our way of living. Just look at the cartoon uproar we had to suffer in Denmark or the slaying of Theo Van Gogh in your own country. We like to look at ourself as open minded, unfortunately the otherside doesn’t give a shit.

As I said before I don’t like Bush. In particular I hate his attacks on civil rights and I don’t think that any of those attacks will help out in the war. However one thing us European’s need to realise is that while it’s easy to talk about the US civil rights issues, most of Europe has similar laws passing with zero debate.

Many European countries have never had the protection that the US constitution is meant to guarantee. See for example in my blog my analysis of the fucked up Danish constitution. Most of Europe already has identity cards and poor protection on free speech, property etc.

As we saw last night the US voted for a change. Not that I think it will help, Clinton started most of the attacks on civil rights that Bush managed to finish off.

And yes Ralph it is all about the innocent dying. Unfortunately we Western European’s have had our intellectually superior blinders on for so long that is near impossible for us to see what is going on. Their is an enemy and it is not who you think it is.

The only European countries who seem to have any clue are the former communist countries. Why? Well they remember that totalitarianism is NOT cool. When totalitarian governments come (be it Communist, Fascist, Catholic or Islamic) people die in great numbers.

Unfortunately for the Western European’s who have never had to fight for anything in their life are desperately looking for rebellion and happily put up posters of Arafat, Che and Lenin on their wall and claim moral superiority on the US who took over after the UK and before then France as being the universal evil for intellectuals everywhere.

While people have rights to have an opinion about politics in countries other than the one they are living in. However, I think people from Belgium have to take a look at their own politics first before making comments about the political system in other countries. The current political ‘elite’ in Belgium is trying hard to hide their mistakes and the critics from their civilians and ignoring the ‘voice of the people’. The party ‘Vlaams Belang’ is one of the greater parties in Belgium, but is rejected in every coalition because the ‘other’ parties are working together because ‘Vlaams Belang’ suppose to be a racist party. While their is a sense of truth in the racism argument, I think it is not appropriate to ignore a party which has 30 percent of the votes in some districts and even saying that ‘they have lost elections’ while they won a few percent but less than expected.

msturm, while you are right about this non-foreign politics issue of Belgium, I disagree that it has anything to do with this subject.

The subject being discussed is foreign policy of the United States of America.

I don’t see how domestic politics of Belgium directly have an impact on the majority of non Belgian people. Whereas foreign politics and policy of the United Sates of America DOES directly have an impact on me (me being a Belgian).

On the foreign policy of Belgian and this issue: we all know that the Belgian minister who’s responsible for foreign problems clearly and as one of the first in the world expressed that Belgium did NOT support attacking Iraq.

So msturm, if we are going to compare countries, then let us stay on the subject. Let us restrict ourselfs to foreign policy.

Not on my blog nor most of the people here try to influence the domestic politics of the United States. It’s not the subject.

It’s comparing two different things.

Pelle said: “Although your idea that Murdoch is Zionist immediately raises warning flags. You being from the country of Anne Frank should immediately be disturbed of this kind of thing yourself.”

I wonder what those warning flags are? You are confusing the hate of Jews with my concern with fundamentalistic groups, such as the Zionists, or the Hamas, or Al Quida.

Mr Murdoch supports an extreme fundamentalistic ideology. Would the same ‘warning flags’ popup with you, if it concerns my use of the label ‘Hamas-supporter’ or ‘Al-Quida-supporter’?

It’s quite irrelevant that he is a Zionist, but it is very relevant that he is an orthodox fundamentalist and in control of all US news channels. This raises concern for the ability of the USA to have open and free elections. The media is an important part of being a free country: you need a strong independent network of people investigating your government and reporting to the people about it.

Pelle said: “This war was not waged by the US. This war was waged and declared by Al Qaeda, Hizbolla, Hamas, Ayatollah Khomeni and a bunch of other idiot’s who couldn’t give a rats ass what people vote in the US, the Netherlands or here in Denmark”

Yet most US soldiers are in Iraq. A country that, without a brutal dictator, would fall apart in civil war. This is because their borders were defined by European nations, when they were still colonies, even though they house different groups of population.

None of these groups of population in Iraq had declared war with the US. Nor had they anything to do with 9/11 or Al Quida. Al Quida was Saddam second biggest enemy after the USA.

So why did the USA choose to attack Iraq? I can come up with hundreds of reasons: but I can’t look into the minds of politicians. All I can do is speculate.

Irregardless, even during War you have rules concerning human rights. Torture and clusterbombs are things we are prosecuting political leaders for (right here in the Hague, in the War Crimes tribunal)

I also find it disturbing that your list of dangerous fundamentalistic groups only contain fundamentalistic muslims groups. And quite a weird selection I might add. They are not all that comparable.

Hamas doesn’t directly belong to the same category as the others in the list: its the only group that is not attacking, but defending. They started their war when their country was occupied, and in their eyes, when they fight in Israel, they are still fighting in what was once their land. I’m not saying that what they do is right, but its not like the other terrorist on your list.

Hezbolla is a bit different as well: together with Hamas they are the only ones that can be classified as civil rebellion and not a small elite group of people that want to push their ideology: they fight for freedom, not religious suppresion. They both have the support of a majority of the population they represent as well.

Secondly, You forget some dangerous fundamentalistic groups on your list. You have forgotten:

• Conservative Baptist Republicans
• Orthodox Fundamentalistic Zionists
• Revolutonairy Communists,
• KKK, Black Power and Nazis.
• (many many more..)

All these groups try to reduce freedom and enforce their beliefs on the rest of the world using violence. And they use the battle between them to get the rest of the sane world to comply with this.

I fear fundamentalistic muslims with small bombs. But I fear fundamentalistic republicans and Zionists with their Cluster and Nuclear Bombs way more. Not because their ideology is more scaring: they are equally scary. But they just have bigger guns and more power.

You have a point about the intellectual guild-trip Europe’s intellectuals are on. Although you can question the true motives of criticizing the US, it doesn’t invalidate any of the points raised. And personally, I would tear down any poster of Arafat, Che and Lenin. (or Bush, or Bin Laden, or Saddam)

But none of that changes the situation that who ever ends up being the American president can choose what and how this will happen. Irregardless of being able to bring Democracy to Iraq, America is still the most powerful country on Earth (even when they aren’t magicians and there can’t do the impossible). All terrorists combined have less power and influence on the world in their entire life, than the US president has during a day.

If you compare 9/11, with the wars that resulted in this so called ‘defending yourself’ the numbers of not even in the same scale.

9/11: less than 5,000 innocent people died Iraq: more than 500,000 innocent people died (not nessecarily by US bombs!)

America and Europe didn’t became more dangerous on 9/11. It has always been this way. We are in greater danger now that the support of terrorism in the Middle-East is way up, thanks to torture and 500,000 victims.

We would really have been better off with much less extreme reaction to 9/11.

Please join me in this analogy: If there were two monkeys in the zoo. One is an evil satan-monkey and the other is just a dumb monkey. The dumb monkey has a nuclear bumb, the evil satan monkey has a hand gun.

Who would you fear more?

Update: Democrats win! The dumb monkey just turned a little bit smarter.

MSTurn says: “However, I think people from Belgium have to take a look at their own politics first before making comments about the political system in other countries”

What’s up with these people with all their tiny little meta rules about when you are and when you are not allowed to have an opinion about something.

Its so childish. People are complaining about US foreign policy because they care about human rights and world peace. Replying with ‘yes, they may be a murdered, but you are ugly, so you can’t say anything about it’ is pathetic. Stop. Think about it. Could you be more childish?

It’s not about measuring dick sizes (who’s government is worse?). It’s about caring for this world. Standing up for the innocent. So we complain about the guy that has the amount of power to change it. We complain about the guy that is actually causing many of the problems in this world.

Whether or not our own politicians would do better or worse given the power GWB has, is a theoretical question, none of us here are debating about.

Also on a sidenote about Belgium: The fact that 30% voted for the Vlaams Belang, means that 70% didn’t. And I’m pretty sure that 70% considers not having the Vlaams Belang in the government to be the most important. So ignoring them, is exactly what democracy is about: the majority rules. The majority does not want that kind of party in the government.

You seem to be confused with the biggest-common-denominator. Being the biggest party does not mean you represent a majority.

That is why politics are not like music charts: parties can form coalitions. Example: If 90% of the world is listening to 10,000 different rock songs and 10% of the world is listening to 40 different rap songs, then the Top 40 would be filled with only rap. Then again, the majority of the people prefer Rock.

Get it now?

Why does it have to be a teenage girl? Sexism is part of the reason that so few women are involved in the open source community.

‘Then came the little girl in red. She stopped. She stared. And then she said: ‘But Grandma, what a lovely great big furry coat you have on.’ ‘Thats wrong!’, cried Wolf. ‘Have you forgot To tell me what BIG TEETH Ive got? Ah well, no matter what you say, Im gonna eat you anyway.’ The small girl smiles. One eyelid flickers. She whips a pistol from her knickers. She aims it at the creatures head, And bang bang bang, she shoots him dead. And what a change! No cloak of red, No silly hood upon her head.’

‘For the times, they are a changing’, so watch out for little red riding hoods, guys. Just let them finish their ironing :)